Play2Win: I like your classic approach. When in doubt nothing is wrong with the classic touch. I like how you added a few little additions as well. What I would like to see is an idea like that become build into a series. There are a lot of Double Dragon remakes, some good some bad, but we need someone who can make a great start so we can build another series.
Dan Duff: I have to agree about the females. I think we need a more diverse group of them for variety. It would add to the game. I think an updated 80s style would do for looks. Characters like Willy have a standard look that works in any era. All it needs is a graphical update with small changes. As far as 3D, I would love a full 3D game that was semi-open instead of a side-scroller. With that concept, you could use the environment to add effect to the fighting and feel. I can also completely understand why you want to continue after Double Dragon II. Even with my ideas, I couldn’t really grab much from Double Dragon III because it just seems so different from the others.
My approach is a little different. I want to actually continue the story from Super Double Dragon. For my basis I want to use the Nintendo and Super Nintendo storyline for it with some slight modifications. My main reason for using the Nintendo storyline is because it feels deeper than the arcade storyline and there is a little more to work with. I want to try to keep a classic feel but have new parts of the game added to the series at the same time. There were bits and pieces from every Double Dragon I liked and I wanted to take features from each game and add it into this new one whether its characters, controls, health system, etc. I also added some new additions as well. This is kind of a rough idea that I have for everything. I’m not completely set on everything and I’m willing to tweak my idea of a great Double Dragon game, but I feel this would bring back old gamers as well as new ones.
HEROIC CHARACTERS: I will always like the classic looks because they will forever be iconic, but since systems are strong enough to add some diversity to the characters I would like to make some small modified changes. I won't go as drastically as Rage of the Dragons did (Even though I like the look of Billy and Jimmy in the game.), but I want to change them slightly. Keep in mind that the pictures I post are around the idea of what I want them to look like not 100% exactly what I want them to look like.
BILLY LEE For Billy, I want to keep him in semi-classic as far as attire but I would like to make a couple of small changes. Instead of having his jacket with missing/ripped sleeves wanted to make it a full jacket. As far as colors I like his Double Dragon II Arcade shade of blue. He should have either white shoes or brown boots and I actually prefer the brown haired Billy from later games compared to the blonde from the arcades. I might be in the minority but it grew on me. Like in Double Dragon IOS, he has fighting gloves. As I mention, this is only a small change to his attire and not completely changing it like Rage of the Dragons.
JIMMY LEEFor Jimmy, I'm split between two looks. While the color scheme isn't there, I would like Jimmy to simply wear a t-shirt or a tank top with some form or wind/fitness pants. His colors should either be a red shirt with black pants or white shirt with red pants. If anything, I want to make sure his color scheme is the same to make sure he is still Jimmy. He should also have some kind of dragon tattoo on his arm as well mainly to show that Jimmy is the more outspoken one of the Dragons. The other look was from the DD IOS ending was really ideal as well. The colors could be changed, but it is still pretty good as is. It looks modern but not too far away from his classic look. Like Billy, I like the later Jimmy which had blonde spiky hair. It is not a huge issue since each character has displayed both. It just depends on the fans preference.
MARION KELLYOf all the characters in Double Dragon Marion is going to go through the biggest change. I feel that instead of people a damsel in distress she should take on her role as a police officer. Originally she was supposed to be introduced as a police officer in Super Double Dragon but unfortunately she wasn't implemented along with the cut scenes for the game. Still I think now is the perfect time for Marion to change roles in the series from damsel in distress to more of an equivalent to Blaze Fielding from Street of Rage. Obviously Marion won't carry a gun and fight bare handed like Billy and Jimmy. Of those three looks I think the something similar to the first or second look is ideal for Marion.
TAIMAK WHITE (New Character)When I created this thread last year I got a lot of different inputs on what people would like if Double Dragon created a new playable character or an old one. Some felt Sonny would still be a good choice while others liked some of the better cartoon choices such as Blaster or Vortex and a few wanted a completely new character. At first I liked Blaster as a playable character because his background would be easy to transition into the game. Double Dragon Forever created a new character concept in Sato which seemed to be a good as well. I decided to try and make an attempt at a new Double Dragon character that would connect to the story. In order to create a new character I based it off the same elements that were used to create Billy, Jimmy, and other Double Dragon characters. First Double Dragon used the names and/or likeness of famous fighters and/or characters from movies like Enter the Dragon, The Warriors, and other martial Arts movies. I wanted to take the name of two of my favorite African American fighters in Michael Jai White and Taimak (The Last Dragon) and combine it. Second was the look it was hard to find a good picture of what I wanted but this was about as close as I could get it. For this character I'm still debating whether he should have braids or a short haircut. A few people thought of a few stars to base him on but I am still deciding on a solid concept. Finally he needs to have a good story that will blends with Billy, Jimmy, and Marion's story but also have a connection to the Shadow Warriors as well. There are a ton of directions you can go with a new characters story. You could say his loved ones or partners (If he was an agent, solider, or police officer.) were murdered by the new Shadow Warriors to create his story and common interest with Billy and Jimmy. Still with a new character the sky is the limit. Another obstacle is what type you want to make him or her. Do you make them a speed fighter, brute, of balanced? At first, I thought about making him a brute like max from SOR, but I prefer for him to be a little more balanced.
VILLAINS: Double Dragon's most iconic villains should return because they all made an impact on the series. All of the iconic characters should be slightly upgraded in both looks and ability. Like the heroes most returning villains should not have any major changes to their looks in order to keep their appeal. Here are the following villains that should return:
Williams and Roper (Similar to what they always looked like…Thugs.), Linda (Should continue to have a dominatrix look.), Abobo (Jeans instead of tights.), Chin Taimei (Similar Looks to DD IOS), Jeff (His costume should be the costume that wasn’t chosen for Jimmy and his colors should be green. His hair should be brown and spiky, Burnov (He should have a look similar to DD IOS.), and Steve (In his business attire.), Chin Long Foo and Chin Long-Biao (An upgrade to their Kung Fu suits.), Daby (She should have a rough and rugged look like in Double Dragon 3.), and possibly Jim (Maybe???). Willy makes a cameo in the new game but I have my reasons on why you won't battle him. He is too iconic not to leave out of the series but he has a special purpose. Because the characters I listed are iconic the heroes will have special cut scenes with them. All other characters should be new. Most of them are different forms of fighters and martial artist.
THE NEW SHADOW WARRIORS BOSSES: If I made a Double Dragon game I would want to make a few iconic villains that you fight in the next few games of the series. This gives the series time to build upon them so people could learn to love (And hate) them. While I don't have names I have the characteristics of these major characters. Here are a few that I have come up with. Note I haven’t thought of any good names so I plan on adding or changing them:
CAIN (The Heartless Warrior): In every great series there seems to be a character that seems cocky, overconfident, and lacks respect for his opponent. Cain actually has a history with the Mysterious Warrior from Double Dragon II mainly because he is his son. Unlike his father who showed some form of respect to Billy and Jimmy when beaten (The ending kind of says he respects them enough to tell them about the fallen angel.), Cain has no respect for his opponent. He lacks respect for his father due to his fairness for the battle. Cain believes that should you kick a man while he's down. Consider his personality like Hauer from Fatal Fury the motion picture and Vega from Street Fighter. Like his father (whose name I haven't created yet.) he uses Gen-Satsu-Ken style. He also has the power of illusion as well as a fire element. He often laughs at the Sanoske’s idea of fair play.
DEMONA (Lady of the Shadow): One thing that is extremely difficult is to make an impact female character because there isn’t a history of good ones video game-wise. I wanted to make an attempt at creating a good one. She is the manipulative type who loves to experiment on her victims. She was responsible for Marion’s possession in Double Dragon III as well as an even stronger possession within Duke in Super Double Dragon. She relies on a lot of shadow illusions during her battles. She has the ability to possess her opponent like the doppelgangers from DDII as well as create physical shadow illusions.
SANOSUKE (The Intellectual Villain): Characters like Sosuke Aizen are considered intellectual villains. These fighters seem to grasp and gauge their opponent’s strength against theirs. They want to see their opponent at maximum level not out of respect for their opponent but more out of experimentation. They strike fear by displaying how their opponent’s power pale in comparison to theirs. Their opponent’s life and death depends on whether this character feels they have reached their maximum potential. Why is a character like this important for a Double Dragon series? Because initially he is going to show both Billy and Jimmy that their skill is nowhere near the level of an upper level Shadow Warrior. He is a character you can expect to be in the next few games. This also reveals why the Mysterious Warrior feels they will fall soon enough in the Double Dragon II ending. His Gen-Satsu-Ken style is nearly perfect. Its hard to say what this character should look like. Either you can take the Bain route and make him muscular and intelligent or you can make him like Sosuke and make him smaller and skillful. The second look has more of a fighter's look.
THE SHADOW MASTER: Don’t get this Shadow Master confused with the one from the cartoon. This Shadow Master is a lot more menacing. He has an extremely powerful presence and his skill is flawless. You shouldn’t see him in the series until close to the end. You may see a shadow figure, his arm, or any tattoo markings he may have, but he should not be seen until close to the end of the series.
Number of players: It’s hard for me to say whether it should be two players or four players. I would like to see four players, but if the action becomes too cluttered than it should remain two players. If the game was full 3D, then it should be four players.
ControlsXBOX and Playstation
X/Square: Punch
A/X: Counter
Y/Triangle: Kick
B/Circle: Grab/grapple
Left Trigger/L1: Chi Attack
Right Trigger/R1: Counter Initiation
Left Bumper/L2: Jump
Right Bumper/R2: Crouch
Right Analog: Directional Evade
While I like the block and counter in Super Double Dragon, I felt it was too easy to counter. Instead of simply timing the attack with the block button, you must use the counter initiation button along with punch and kick to counter. Simple or weaker fighters are predictable and easy to counter, but mid to higher level fighter are more difficult. Higher level fighter can counter as well; however, players can re-counter if they are fast enough. Since enemies will try to surround the Dragons, hitting counter in any position will counter that enemy with a back attack. While I like the block and counter in Super Double Dragon, I felt it was too easy to counter. Instead of simply timing the attack with the block button, you must use the counter initiation button along with punch and kick to counter. Simple or weaker fighters are predictable and easy to counter, but mid to higher level fighter are more difficult. Higher level fighter can counter as well; however, players can re-counter if they are fast enough. Since enemies will try to surround the Dragons, hitting counter in any position will counter that enemy with a back attack.
As far as grapples Billy, Jimmy, Marion, and Taimak have different styles. Grapples are initiation commands while punch, kick, and another grab press are the execution. Jump places the player on the other side of the enemy. If an enemy is weak enough, a player can break their limbs during the grapple.
Chi attacks are similar to your charge bar in Super Double Dragon. The Chi attacks have three levels. Level one is a special attack such as a hurricane kick or hyper knee. Level 2 is an extreme focus. Like in Super Double Dragon the heroes have a higher level of attack for a limited amount of time. Level three is there ultimate attack. These are extremely high damage attacks or combos depending on which character you are using.
Team attacks can be initiated if an enemy is in the perfect position for one.
Enemy levels: Enemy levels vary during the game. The higher an enemy level, the more features they will have. Mid-Bosses for instance may have a level two chi and even level three in later levels. The higher an enemy, the harder it is to counter or grab. Enemies also have team attacks as well. For instance, Linda can wrap her whip around a player’s neck, which will give Abobo the chance to charge at a player and nail them with a powerful shoulder attack.
Gameplay format and aspects: Double Dragon should be in a high quality 2D or 2.5D. I would also be excited for 3D Double Dragon as long as it is a full and complete 3D. If it is done in 2D, it should look like the newer KOF games. If it is done in 3D it should look something like Sleeping Dogs. Double Dragon should feature a wide variety of enemies with a wide variety or martial arts techniques with each having their own strengths and weaknesses. By doing this, players will have to constantly adjust strategies to battle these enemies. Also because Double Dragon is semi-realistic, physical attributes should come into play. Enemies will vary in different sizes so they should change the animations depending on the size of enemy you are fighting. For instance unless another player assists someone in slamming a fat enemy, no one should be able to lift up and throw a heavy enemy. As far as nature elements such as fire, lighting, and water attacks should be limited. Double Dragon has had enemies with this ability, but this game should not go overboard unless it is a high level boss. Double Dragon should keep a major focus on hand to hand fighting and martial arts techniques. Weapons should also vary. Guns should be extremely rare and scarce. Nearly every weapon should be a hand to hand weapon. Like Streets of Rage, Billy, Jimmy, Marion, and Taimak should have a specialty expertise weapon. If Billy picks up an enemy’s nunchucks then his attacks will have a different animation because they are more damaging. If another character picks up this weapon then they will have a general attack with it. Jimmy’s specialty is staffs, Marion’s is knives, and Taimak is swords. Another feature that should be added is using the environment as a weapon. Enemies and player can be slammed into objects such as tables and soda machines. This adds to the aspect that this game is a pure street fight for survival. Finally traps and obstacles should return as well. The NES games did a great job of incorporating these obstacles and it should continue. Adding traps and obstacles brings a different aspect and strategy to the game. Finally there should have different scenarios such as chasing down an enemy for information in certain parts of the game. Think of this like the bikes in stage 2 from Battle Toads and Double Dragon where you had to dodge obstacles. At certain point of the game the Dragons will chase an enemy on foot and dodge obstacles for a brief period of time to catch him. It’s just another small feature to add diversity to the game.
The Life and Energy Bar: The life bar should be somewhat like Marvel Vs. Capcom in an aspect where a player takes damage; however, it should recover to an extent. As you take major hits or hit the ground, a portion of your main-life bar should disappear. The energy bar will refill up to the max point of the life bar. If your energy is depleted, but your life bar remains, then you are knocked out and can be recovery either by a player of time. If your life bar is completely gone, then your character is dead.
Cinematic Scenes: At the beginning of the game, Double Dragon should have full cinematic scenes at the introduction of the game (Before you press start.), the start of the game, in between stages, and the ending. In the game when they meet a mid-boss and/or boss, there should be text-like cinematic in the game. This should be enough to develop characters and have enough character interaction.
Music: Like every Double Dragon game, some stages need a remake of Double Dragon's classic music. At least three to four songs. Other stages should have music that can give off the feel of that particular stage.
Feel and look of the game: The better Double Dragon games have had a serious feel but somewhat light at the same time. Of all of the games Double Dragon II had the darkest feel of all of the games. DD IOS was more comedic. I would like for my game to be in between those two games as far as tone. I want it to be serious because of the threat of the new shadow warriors, but it should have a few comedic moments as well. Another topic that could be considered is damage. Double Dragon could take a page from Die Hard the Arcade if they wanted visuals such as ripped clothing or bruises. Dirty and/or ripped clothing could depend on the player’s health. For instance, if Marion is take damage than maybe her police shirt is ripped if her life is low. Billy for instance, loses his jacket or his sleeves do get ripped. As far as bruises, they should be minor and not as gruesome as Mortal Kombat. Also damage should vary depending on what type of enemy the Dragons are fighting. If it is a normal enemy odds are they are not taking serious damage so clothing should be ripped; however, if they are hit with a major special that bring their life to orange or red then it should show bruises and clothing damage.
Story Thoughts and Bonus Features: For every stage beaten you unlock a past story from the classic games and/or a classic game for every three stages. The classic games would be the NES versions of Double Dragon One, Two, Three, and Super/Return of the Double Dragon (The unreleased Untold Story version.). Ideally I would love to see an HD remake version of the Nintendo games for graphics sake, but even without it, it would be a great bonus.
If I could make an ideal game for Double Dragon, I would use the NES storyline as a base and continue from Super Double Dragon. I have toggled with the idea of how to do stages and I would make the stages similar to the old Sega Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog games where there were three acts per stage (Example: City Slums Act 1,2, and final stage.). My game would be a little lengthy because I would try to create somewhere around 16 stages. In order for the game to succeed both the heroes and villains must have a lot of interest and appeal. In order to make the story fit my game with every stage you beat, you would get a scene from what happened in past games as well as present characters. This would help solidify the story of the NES games and also bridge the story between the NES games and my new game. These scenes should be either cinematic or done in a comic-like form with text. Some of the following questions should be answered:
-What happened to Willy (While we was in the arcade DD2 he wasn’t in any other versions of the Nintendo game.)
- Jimmy Lee’s origins for being a Shadow Warrior (Being he was the final boss on the NES version and not counting the fight amongst players in the arcade version.).
- Who was the Mysterious Warrior from Double Dragon II?
- The day Marion became a police officer and her training.
- How did Duke get possessed?
- Taimak’s Origins and story.
- Billy, Marion’s, and Jimmy’s life after Super Double Dragon.
- The origins of the new Shadow Warriors
I feel touching up on those key points would actually bring a good base to the new story.
New/Continued Double Dragon story: After Duke’s death and burial, the Dragons went their separate ways to pursue their own personal goals. Jimmy Lee becomes a tournament fighter (More Fatal Fury/Street Fighter styles tournaments.) in order to build a reestablish and rebuild the dojo. With the defeat of disappearance of the major Shadow Warriors, Marion and the police force are beginning to turn the against crime in the city. While the rate is still high from the aftermath of WWIII and the Shadow Warriors, crime has become somewhat manageable. With the loss of his parents, master, Duke, and Marion’s near death experience, Billy travels away from the city for a year to find enlightenment and overcome those failures. He travels to dojos in various areas such as China and Japan to gain knowledge from various grandmasters. After the year has passed; they all return to Duke’s grave to pay their respect once again. As the return to the dojo they find (For the section one of the Double Dragon III characters like Chin or Ranzou or a major character like Willy for his failure.) is found dead hanging in a weird ritual. Baffled as Billy, Jimmy, and Marion looks on, a voice speaks from the shadows. They get in a fighting stance as the figure steps forward. Taimak then reveals himself and speak, “The Elite Shadow Warriors have noticed your presence and has given you a sign of acknowledgment.” After a short discussion they can hear the noises outside. The game then begins.
Like I said, these ideas are out for discussion so I would love to hear your inputs good and/or bad.