Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

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Billy Lee
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Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Billy Lee »

With all of the remakes (Good and/or bad) it seems like it may be a while before they advance the Double Dragon story and bring a new adventure into the saga. In the meantime instead of asking what you would like in a Double Dragon game (A post I created a year ago.), I wanted to know how you guys would create the new Double Dragon game. While we discussed this a year ago I have seen some different users around so I thought this would be a good time to post another thread similar to the one I did last year. Being that you guys are loyal fans of Double Dragon I would like for you guys to express your thoughts. I noticed a lot of you guys are creating amazing fan games (Which I can’t wait to play once they are completed.) so think of this as a company giving you total and complete control to create a Double Dragon game for this generation or next generation consoles. Please answer the following questions:

Heroic Characters (Old and New): Besides Billy and Jimmy what new characters (If any) would you add to the game or would you use some past characters such as Chin or Ranzou for example?

Heroic Characters Looks: If you want a more modern or new look, add pictures that would put us in the general area of your vision. If you want to stay with a classic look then just place a classic photo. Also explain your reasons.


Villainous Characters (Old and New): Which villains from past Double Dragon games should return? What are your ideas for new characters (If any)? Who would you have as a boss?

Villainous Character Looks: If you had an idea for a new boss use pictures to give us an example of what he/she should be? If you think a character like (Linda or Abobo for example.) need a different look what should they look like?


Number of Players: Should the game remain two players or with the addition of new characters increase to four?

Gameplay format: Would you prefer 2D, 2.5D, or 3D

Feel of the game: What would be the feel for your game? Dark and extremely violent and serious (Example: Batman Arkham Asylum), colorful (DD Neon), or a little lighter (Double Dragon Ipod). Post a game or movie that would describe the feel of your game.

Controls: What controls and special features/moves would you have in your game? Would you add things such as special moves, team attacks, etc.
Cinematic Scenes: Would you add cinematic scenes to your game or special dialogue in during missions (Example: Abobo is a known mid-boss and has an interaction scene between him and Jimmy.)?


Story: Which Double Dragon story would you continue your sequel from (Arcade, NES, DD Advance, IPhone, DD Neon, etc.) or would you start a new remake in order to properly build your saga?

Bonus Features: What would you add for replay value? New costumes? The chance to win classic games? DLC?

If there are any addition questions or features that you feel should be added, feel free to do so. I know that we all have a lot that we agree on, but I also notice we all have a few different visions as well for a Double Dragon Sequel so I think this would be a great topic to discuss it. I have a few ideas myself but it will take me a couple of days to get them together.
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Play2win
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Play2win »

Heroic Characters (Old and New): The sequel should have only Billy and Jimmy as playable protagonists

Heroic Characters Looks: The classic looks should be preserved of possible. This contributes to the overall feel.

Villainous Characters (Old and New): All the classic enemies should appear, but also with some surprise appearances by DD2 and DD3 characters. Levels should have plenty of minibosses. Jeff should have a prominent role and fight using identical techniques to the protagonists over several levels. Willy should be the final boss.

Villainous Character Looks: As before, the classic looks should be preserved of possible.

Number of Players: Two players probably, maybe three if the feel can be preserved.

Gameplay format: 2D, 2D, 2D, 2D!!!!

Feel of the game: I would prefer a "heavy" cartoony feel like Double Dragon Advance. That being said, the IOS double dragon struck a good balance between cartoony feel and realistic/violent feel, which worked very well for that game.

Controls: A complex gameplay scheme like Double Dragon Advance should be the base for this. There should be plenty of easilly executed special moves. Special blocking techniques like in Super Double Dragon should be employed. The hair pull and other classic moves can be enhanced with team techniques. Heavy damage moves with more complex executions (like Streets of Rage 3) would also add to the depth.

Cinematic Scenes: This is also critical. There should be dialogue with bosses and mini bosses, and also cutscenes like the SNES Combatribes boss interrogations between levels. Similar to Double Dragon IOS but better written and maybe more gritty.

Story: This should be a retelling of the original Double Dragon. Beat up the Black Warriors and save Marion.

Bonus Features: Double Dragon 1, 2, and 3 arcade version unlockables.
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Dan Druff
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Re: Your Ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Dan Druff »

Heroic Characters (Old and New): I don't mind if only Billy and Jimmy are the only two playable characters because I prefer the two of them taking on impossible odds.

Heroic Characters Looks: Stay with the style established in the original arcade Double Dragon.

Villainous Characters (Old and New): Bring back Daby; I want more female enemies. I don't care if the next threat to the Double Dragons is an all-female group. I hate the idea that a female enemy is a type of enemy as opposed to another set of ideas for enemies. Does every female enemy after Linda and Daby have to be slender? Is it too much trouble to have a larger female opponent not the size of Abobo but can stand toe-to-toe with the Double Dragons and use grapples like a bear hug or a headlock?

Villainous Character Looks: The original style from the 80s is good enough. It actually holds up very well for this type of game.

Number of Players: For now the game should be two players.

Gameplay Format: I want a real 3D version where you're not always facing left or right.

Feel of the game: I want to go back to the classic Double Dragon style of dealing damage where knockdowns cause you to lose health. You can reduce health with regular attacks, but knockdowns take the rest of that away. If you've played a fighting game like Ultimate Marvel versus Capcom 3, you see that characters lose health but still have a portion of health in red which can be recovered. You should be able to recover health in Double Dragon if you avoid taking damage, but you can only recover the health you didn't lose from knockdowns. I also want to do away with long hit stun which guarantees you'll take a combo into knockdown on any hit from the enemy.

Controls: Punch, kick, jump, block, and grapple should do. I will still try to break the game no matter what control scheme is used. Blocking should be the quickest action to come out, but there is a penalty for abusing the block button. If you block nothing, the next hit you take after the block ends will take away more health than taking the hit by itself. I will never use the block button because my offense is too strong.

Cinematic Scenes: Every enemy should have a win quote if he or she defeats Billy and/or Jimmy. There should be banter during the game as well. Bosses should talk before the fight, and you can make the boss fight even harder if you attack the boss before he or she finishes speaking.

Story: I want to continue after Double Dragon II where the Double Dragons feel more like two dudes out for revenge as opposed to two martial artists trying to purify the world with their skills. I want a new Double Dragon III.

Bonus Features: People keep wanting to play as Marian even though she died in Double Dragon II arcade. Beat the game so you can unlock a special episode where you can hopefully alter her fate. If you succeed, Marian is now playable and the story will change as if she was always alive.

Most of what I wanted already existed on the Super Famicom called Bishin Densetsu Zoku. There's even a boss who looks like Linda from Double Dragon II.
Last edited by Dan Druff on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Play2win
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Play2win »

Some excellent ideas in there- especially the bonus feature idea.
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Billy Lee
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Billy Lee »

Play2Win: I like your classic approach. When in doubt nothing is wrong with the classic touch. I like how you added a few little additions as well. What I would like to see is an idea like that become build into a series. There are a lot of Double Dragon remakes, some good some bad, but we need someone who can make a great start so we can build another series.

Dan Duff: I have to agree about the females. I think we need a more diverse group of them for variety. It would add to the game. I think an updated 80s style would do for looks. Characters like Willy have a standard look that works in any era. All it needs is a graphical update with small changes. As far as 3D, I would love a full 3D game that was semi-open instead of a side-scroller. With that concept, you could use the environment to add effect to the fighting and feel. I can also completely understand why you want to continue after Double Dragon II. Even with my ideas, I couldn’t really grab much from Double Dragon III because it just seems so different from the others.


My approach is a little different. I want to actually continue the story from Super Double Dragon. For my basis I want to use the Nintendo and Super Nintendo storyline for it with some slight modifications. My main reason for using the Nintendo storyline is because it feels deeper than the arcade storyline and there is a little more to work with. I want to try to keep a classic feel but have new parts of the game added to the series at the same time. There were bits and pieces from every Double Dragon I liked and I wanted to take features from each game and add it into this new one whether its characters, controls, health system, etc. I also added some new additions as well. This is kind of a rough idea that I have for everything. I’m not completely set on everything and I’m willing to tweak my idea of a great Double Dragon game, but I feel this would bring back old gamers as well as new ones.

HEROIC CHARACTERS: I will always like the classic looks because they will forever be iconic, but since systems are strong enough to add some diversity to the characters I would like to make some small modified changes. I won't go as drastically as Rage of the Dragons did (Even though I like the look of Billy and Jimmy in the game.), but I want to change them slightly. Keep in mind that the pictures I post are around the idea of what I want them to look like not 100% exactly what I want them to look like.

BILLY LEE

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For Billy, I want to keep him in semi-classic as far as attire but I would like to make a couple of small changes. Instead of having his jacket with missing/ripped sleeves wanted to make it a full jacket. As far as colors I like his Double Dragon II Arcade shade of blue. He should have either white shoes or brown boots and I actually prefer the brown haired Billy from later games compared to the blonde from the arcades. I might be in the minority but it grew on me. Like in Double Dragon IOS, he has fighting gloves. As I mention, this is only a small change to his attire and not completely changing it like Rage of the Dragons.

JIMMY LEE

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For Jimmy, I'm split between two looks. While the color scheme isn't there, I would like Jimmy to simply wear a t-shirt or a tank top with some form or wind/fitness pants. His colors should either be a red shirt with black pants or white shirt with red pants. If anything, I want to make sure his color scheme is the same to make sure he is still Jimmy. He should also have some kind of dragon tattoo on his arm as well mainly to show that Jimmy is the more outspoken one of the Dragons. The other look was from the DD IOS ending was really ideal as well. The colors could be changed, but it is still pretty good as is. It looks modern but not too far away from his classic look. Like Billy, I like the later Jimmy which had blonde spiky hair. It is not a huge issue since each character has displayed both. It just depends on the fans preference.

MARION KELLY

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Of all the characters in Double Dragon Marion is going to go through the biggest change. I feel that instead of people a damsel in distress she should take on her role as a police officer. Originally she was supposed to be introduced as a police officer in Super Double Dragon but unfortunately she wasn't implemented along with the cut scenes for the game. Still I think now is the perfect time for Marion to change roles in the series from damsel in distress to more of an equivalent to Blaze Fielding from Street of Rage. Obviously Marion won't carry a gun and fight bare handed like Billy and Jimmy. Of those three looks I think the something similar to the first or second look is ideal for Marion.


TAIMAK WHITE (New Character)


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When I created this thread last year I got a lot of different inputs on what people would like if Double Dragon created a new playable character or an old one. Some felt Sonny would still be a good choice while others liked some of the better cartoon choices such as Blaster or Vortex and a few wanted a completely new character. At first I liked Blaster as a playable character because his background would be easy to transition into the game. Double Dragon Forever created a new character concept in Sato which seemed to be a good as well. I decided to try and make an attempt at a new Double Dragon character that would connect to the story. In order to create a new character I based it off the same elements that were used to create Billy, Jimmy, and other Double Dragon characters. First Double Dragon used the names and/or likeness of famous fighters and/or characters from movies like Enter the Dragon, The Warriors, and other martial Arts movies. I wanted to take the name of two of my favorite African American fighters in Michael Jai White and Taimak (The Last Dragon) and combine it. Second was the look it was hard to find a good picture of what I wanted but this was about as close as I could get it. For this character I'm still debating whether he should have braids or a short haircut. A few people thought of a few stars to base him on but I am still deciding on a solid concept. Finally he needs to have a good story that will blends with Billy, Jimmy, and Marion's story but also have a connection to the Shadow Warriors as well. There are a ton of directions you can go with a new characters story. You could say his loved ones or partners (If he was an agent, solider, or police officer.) were murdered by the new Shadow Warriors to create his story and common interest with Billy and Jimmy. Still with a new character the sky is the limit. Another obstacle is what type you want to make him or her. Do you make them a speed fighter, brute, of balanced? At first, I thought about making him a brute like max from SOR, but I prefer for him to be a little more balanced.

VILLAINS:
Double Dragon's most iconic villains should return because they all made an impact on the series. All of the iconic characters should be slightly upgraded in both looks and ability. Like the heroes most returning villains should not have any major changes to their looks in order to keep their appeal. Here are the following villains that should return:

Williams and Roper (Similar to what they always looked like…Thugs.), Linda (Should continue to have a dominatrix look.), Abobo (Jeans instead of tights.), Chin Taimei (Similar Looks to DD IOS), Jeff (His costume should be the costume that wasn’t chosen for Jimmy and his colors should be green. His hair should be brown and spiky, Burnov (He should have a look similar to DD IOS.), and Steve (In his business attire.), Chin Long Foo and Chin Long-Biao (An upgrade to their Kung Fu suits.), Daby (She should have a rough and rugged look like in Double Dragon 3.), and possibly Jim (Maybe???). Willy makes a cameo in the new game but I have my reasons on why you won't battle him. He is too iconic not to leave out of the series but he has a special purpose. Because the characters I listed are iconic the heroes will have special cut scenes with them. All other characters should be new. Most of them are different forms of fighters and martial artist.

THE NEW SHADOW WARRIORS BOSSES:
If I made a Double Dragon game I would want to make a few iconic villains that you fight in the next few games of the series. This gives the series time to build upon them so people could learn to love (And hate) them. While I don't have names I have the characteristics of these major characters. Here are a few that I have come up with. Note I haven’t thought of any good names so I plan on adding or changing them:

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CAIN (The Heartless Warrior): In every great series there seems to be a character that seems cocky, overconfident, and lacks respect for his opponent. Cain actually has a history with the Mysterious Warrior from Double Dragon II mainly because he is his son. Unlike his father who showed some form of respect to Billy and Jimmy when beaten (The ending kind of says he respects them enough to tell them about the fallen angel.), Cain has no respect for his opponent. He lacks respect for his father due to his fairness for the battle. Cain believes that should you kick a man while he's down. Consider his personality like Hauer from Fatal Fury the motion picture and Vega from Street Fighter. Like his father (whose name I haven't created yet.) he uses Gen-Satsu-Ken style. He also has the power of illusion as well as a fire element. He often laughs at the Sanoske’s idea of fair play.

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DEMONA (Lady of the Shadow): One thing that is extremely difficult is to make an impact female character because there isn’t a history of good ones video game-wise. I wanted to make an attempt at creating a good one. She is the manipulative type who loves to experiment on her victims. She was responsible for Marion’s possession in Double Dragon III as well as an even stronger possession within Duke in Super Double Dragon. She relies on a lot of shadow illusions during her battles. She has the ability to possess her opponent like the doppelgangers from DDII as well as create physical shadow illusions.

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SANOSUKE (The Intellectual Villain): Characters like Sosuke Aizen are considered intellectual villains. These fighters seem to grasp and gauge their opponent’s strength against theirs. They want to see their opponent at maximum level not out of respect for their opponent but more out of experimentation. They strike fear by displaying how their opponent’s power pale in comparison to theirs. Their opponent’s life and death depends on whether this character feels they have reached their maximum potential. Why is a character like this important for a Double Dragon series? Because initially he is going to show both Billy and Jimmy that their skill is nowhere near the level of an upper level Shadow Warrior. He is a character you can expect to be in the next few games. This also reveals why the Mysterious Warrior feels they will fall soon enough in the Double Dragon II ending. His Gen-Satsu-Ken style is nearly perfect. Its hard to say what this character should look like. Either you can take the Bain route and make him muscular and intelligent or you can make him like Sosuke and make him smaller and skillful. The second look has more of a fighter's look.

THE SHADOW MASTER: Don’t get this Shadow Master confused with the one from the cartoon. This Shadow Master is a lot more menacing. He has an extremely powerful presence and his skill is flawless. You shouldn’t see him in the series until close to the end. You may see a shadow figure, his arm, or any tattoo markings he may have, but he should not be seen until close to the end of the series.

Number of players: It’s hard for me to say whether it should be two players or four players. I would like to see four players, but if the action becomes too cluttered than it should remain two players. If the game was full 3D, then it should be four players.

Controls

XBOX and Playstation

X/Square: Punch
A/X: Counter
Y/Triangle: Kick
B/Circle: Grab/grapple
Left Trigger/L1: Chi Attack
Right Trigger/R1: Counter Initiation
Left Bumper/L2: Jump
Right Bumper/R2: Crouch
Right Analog: Directional Evade

While I like the block and counter in Super Double Dragon, I felt it was too easy to counter. Instead of simply timing the attack with the block button, you must use the counter initiation button along with punch and kick to counter. Simple or weaker fighters are predictable and easy to counter, but mid to higher level fighter are more difficult. Higher level fighter can counter as well; however, players can re-counter if they are fast enough. Since enemies will try to surround the Dragons, hitting counter in any position will counter that enemy with a back attack. While I like the block and counter in Super Double Dragon, I felt it was too easy to counter. Instead of simply timing the attack with the block button, you must use the counter initiation button along with punch and kick to counter. Simple or weaker fighters are predictable and easy to counter, but mid to higher level fighter are more difficult. Higher level fighter can counter as well; however, players can re-counter if they are fast enough. Since enemies will try to surround the Dragons, hitting counter in any position will counter that enemy with a back attack.

As far as grapples Billy, Jimmy, Marion, and Taimak have different styles. Grapples are initiation commands while punch, kick, and another grab press are the execution. Jump places the player on the other side of the enemy. If an enemy is weak enough, a player can break their limbs during the grapple.


Chi attacks are similar to your charge bar in Super Double Dragon. The Chi attacks have three levels. Level one is a special attack such as a hurricane kick or hyper knee. Level 2 is an extreme focus. Like in Super Double Dragon the heroes have a higher level of attack for a limited amount of time. Level three is there ultimate attack. These are extremely high damage attacks or combos depending on which character you are using.

Team attacks can be initiated if an enemy is in the perfect position for one.

Enemy levels: Enemy levels vary during the game. The higher an enemy level, the more features they will have. Mid-Bosses for instance may have a level two chi and even level three in later levels. The higher an enemy, the harder it is to counter or grab. Enemies also have team attacks as well. For instance, Linda can wrap her whip around a player’s neck, which will give Abobo the chance to charge at a player and nail them with a powerful shoulder attack.

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Gameplay format and aspects: Double Dragon should be in a high quality 2D or 2.5D. I would also be excited for 3D Double Dragon as long as it is a full and complete 3D. If it is done in 2D, it should look like the newer KOF games. If it is done in 3D it should look something like Sleeping Dogs. Double Dragon should feature a wide variety of enemies with a wide variety or martial arts techniques with each having their own strengths and weaknesses. By doing this, players will have to constantly adjust strategies to battle these enemies. Also because Double Dragon is semi-realistic, physical attributes should come into play. Enemies will vary in different sizes so they should change the animations depending on the size of enemy you are fighting. For instance unless another player assists someone in slamming a fat enemy, no one should be able to lift up and throw a heavy enemy. As far as nature elements such as fire, lighting, and water attacks should be limited. Double Dragon has had enemies with this ability, but this game should not go overboard unless it is a high level boss. Double Dragon should keep a major focus on hand to hand fighting and martial arts techniques. Weapons should also vary. Guns should be extremely rare and scarce. Nearly every weapon should be a hand to hand weapon. Like Streets of Rage, Billy, Jimmy, Marion, and Taimak should have a specialty expertise weapon. If Billy picks up an enemy’s nunchucks then his attacks will have a different animation because they are more damaging. If another character picks up this weapon then they will have a general attack with it. Jimmy’s specialty is staffs, Marion’s is knives, and Taimak is swords. Another feature that should be added is using the environment as a weapon. Enemies and player can be slammed into objects such as tables and soda machines. This adds to the aspect that this game is a pure street fight for survival. Finally traps and obstacles should return as well. The NES games did a great job of incorporating these obstacles and it should continue. Adding traps and obstacles brings a different aspect and strategy to the game. Finally there should have different scenarios such as chasing down an enemy for information in certain parts of the game. Think of this like the bikes in stage 2 from Battle Toads and Double Dragon where you had to dodge obstacles. At certain point of the game the Dragons will chase an enemy on foot and dodge obstacles for a brief period of time to catch him. It’s just another small feature to add diversity to the game.

The Life and Energy Bar:
The life bar should be somewhat like Marvel Vs. Capcom in an aspect where a player takes damage; however, it should recover to an extent. As you take major hits or hit the ground, a portion of your main-life bar should disappear. The energy bar will refill up to the max point of the life bar. If your energy is depleted, but your life bar remains, then you are knocked out and can be recovery either by a player of time. If your life bar is completely gone, then your character is dead.

Cinematic Scenes: At the beginning of the game, Double Dragon should have full cinematic scenes at the introduction of the game (Before you press start.), the start of the game, in between stages, and the ending. In the game when they meet a mid-boss and/or boss, there should be text-like cinematic in the game. This should be enough to develop characters and have enough character interaction.

Music: Like every Double Dragon game, some stages need a remake of Double Dragon's classic music. At least three to four songs. Other stages should have music that can give off the feel of that particular stage.

Feel and look of the game: The better Double Dragon games have had a serious feel but somewhat light at the same time. Of all of the games Double Dragon II had the darkest feel of all of the games. DD IOS was more comedic. I would like for my game to be in between those two games as far as tone. I want it to be serious because of the threat of the new shadow warriors, but it should have a few comedic moments as well. Another topic that could be considered is damage. Double Dragon could take a page from Die Hard the Arcade if they wanted visuals such as ripped clothing or bruises. Dirty and/or ripped clothing could depend on the player’s health. For instance, if Marion is take damage than maybe her police shirt is ripped if her life is low. Billy for instance, loses his jacket or his sleeves do get ripped. As far as bruises, they should be minor and not as gruesome as Mortal Kombat. Also damage should vary depending on what type of enemy the Dragons are fighting. If it is a normal enemy odds are they are not taking serious damage so clothing should be ripped; however, if they are hit with a major special that bring their life to orange or red then it should show bruises and clothing damage.

Story Thoughts and Bonus Features: For every stage beaten you unlock a past story from the classic games and/or a classic game for every three stages. The classic games would be the NES versions of Double Dragon One, Two, Three, and Super/Return of the Double Dragon (The unreleased Untold Story version.). Ideally I would love to see an HD remake version of the Nintendo games for graphics sake, but even without it, it would be a great bonus.
If I could make an ideal game for Double Dragon, I would use the NES storyline as a base and continue from Super Double Dragon. I have toggled with the idea of how to do stages and I would make the stages similar to the old Sega Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog games where there were three acts per stage (Example: City Slums Act 1,2, and final stage.). My game would be a little lengthy because I would try to create somewhere around 16 stages. In order for the game to succeed both the heroes and villains must have a lot of interest and appeal. In order to make the story fit my game with every stage you beat, you would get a scene from what happened in past games as well as present characters. This would help solidify the story of the NES games and also bridge the story between the NES games and my new game. These scenes should be either cinematic or done in a comic-like form with text. Some of the following questions should be answered:

-What happened to Willy (While we was in the arcade DD2 he wasn’t in any other versions of the Nintendo game.)
- Jimmy Lee’s origins for being a Shadow Warrior (Being he was the final boss on the NES version and not counting the fight amongst players in the arcade version.).
- Who was the Mysterious Warrior from Double Dragon II?
- The day Marion became a police officer and her training.
- How did Duke get possessed?
- Taimak’s Origins and story.
- Billy, Marion’s, and Jimmy’s life after Super Double Dragon.
- The origins of the new Shadow Warriors

I feel touching up on those key points would actually bring a good base to the new story.

New/Continued Double Dragon story: After Duke’s death and burial, the Dragons went their separate ways to pursue their own personal goals. Jimmy Lee becomes a tournament fighter (More Fatal Fury/Street Fighter styles tournaments.) in order to build a reestablish and rebuild the dojo. With the defeat of disappearance of the major Shadow Warriors, Marion and the police force are beginning to turn the against crime in the city. While the rate is still high from the aftermath of WWIII and the Shadow Warriors, crime has become somewhat manageable. With the loss of his parents, master, Duke, and Marion’s near death experience, Billy travels away from the city for a year to find enlightenment and overcome those failures. He travels to dojos in various areas such as China and Japan to gain knowledge from various grandmasters. After the year has passed; they all return to Duke’s grave to pay their respect once again. As the return to the dojo they find (For the section one of the Double Dragon III characters like Chin or Ranzou or a major character like Willy for his failure.) is found dead hanging in a weird ritual. Baffled as Billy, Jimmy, and Marion looks on, a voice speaks from the shadows. They get in a fighting stance as the figure steps forward. Taimak then reveals himself and speak, “The Elite Shadow Warriors have noticed your presence and has given you a sign of acknowledgment.” After a short discussion they can hear the noises outside. The game then begins.

Like I said, these ideas are out for discussion so I would love to hear your inputs good and/or bad.
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Play2win
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Play2win »

I really like a lot of your ideas- you have definitely put a lot of thought into this. I only have a few things to add/alter:

1. I like your idea with the counter system- this was what I was thinking of when I wanted the re-institution of the blocking techniques. I think the countering effect should be something similar to Shenmue, where the blocking countering can have multiple layers (counter a counter a counter a counter etc...) which increases in difficulty depending on the sophistication of the enemy fighers, and should require the pollayer to hit a random controller button (like a Shenmue QuickTimeEvent) to keep the counter volley going. The longer it goes on, the more powerful the ultimate connecting hit is. if the timing is too close, this can "break" the volley without a hit.

2. Double Dragon warriors don't use guns. Although they should be scarce, they should not be available as weapons for any of the Protagonists. The only DD game to feature guns as a usable weapon for the player (to my knowledge) was DD for the Game Gear, and this drew harsh reactions from many DD fans.

3. Marrion should have a special weapon ability different from a knife- I was thinking maybe a police baton or something specific to her police training. Mechanically she should not be a "hard hitter" but rather than a Blaze Fielding feel, I think a Jean Ivy feel (from Dynamite Cop) would be more appropriate. Jean used brutal combos which used the enemies body weight against them and resulted in really brutal looking (and sounding) bone breaks. Very entertaining.

4. Some of the plot elements you mention seem to involve DD3. With some creative writing, I think the arcade DD3 plot could be woven in to the master plot, even though it's a little odd.. I like the soul possession idea since it has great tie ins to lots of other Double Dragon games. Do you have any plans to include Hiruko?

Again, overall very nice ideas. Please keep us posted.
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Billy Lee
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Billy Lee »

Thanks for your input once again Play2Win and I agree with some of your suggestions. Here are some of my replies to your answers:

1. I like the idea of the Shenmue counter system. I was looking at something equivalent to that because if Billy and Jimmy are fighting a sophisticated fighter then it will be a lot of counters. A quick time event should be triggered if you are fighting a boss mainly.

2. When I mentioned guns I was thinking of Street of Rage 3, where a gun was scare and only had one bullet. Still I like your idea that only an antagonist should carry a gun like a hitman-type character.

3. Yes I agree Marion’s weapon should be either a baton or kali sticks as a specialty weapons. I was probably thinking of Blaze’s special knife moves in SOR3 when I wrote it. While on the topic of fighting styles, I felt that each character should have a unique fighting style from one another as well as different attributes. Attributes are on a 200 point balance scale and should be based on the following:

• Upper strength: This affects your punching power and grappling strength.
• Lower strength: Your kicking power can help your through the fight.
• Speed: This helps your move faster and attack quicker.
• Defense: It's important to uphold their attacks by countering and blocking attacks.

I think these styles and attributes fit each character best:

BILLY LEE
Fighting Style: Sou-Setsu-Ken Southern Style (Jeet Kune Do based)
Fighting Attributes: Billy Lee is a very balanced fighter as far as skill. While he may not be as strong as some of his counterparts in some areas;however, he is not as weak as they are in some areas as well.

Upper strength: 50%
Lower strength: 50%
Speed: 50%
Defense: 50%

JIMMY LEE

Fighting Style: Sou-Setsu-Ken Northern Style (Kenpo based)
Fighting Attributes: While Billy and Jimmy both have similarities on their Sou-Setsu-Ken style, Jimmy’s northern style has incorporated some parts of Kenpo while Billy’s has some variations of Jeet Kune Do. Jimmy is slightly stronger than Billy, but a little slower.
Upper strength: 55%
Lower strength: 45%
Speed: 45%
Defense: 55%

MARION KELLEY

Fighting Style: Judo
Fighting Attributes: While Marion has spent some time training with the Double Dragons, her main style is Judo. After join the police force, she met one of her Lieutenants who was a former Judo master. Marion learned from her new master about countering bigger enemies and using their force against them. While Marion doesn’t possess the physical strength of her counterparts, she maintains a high level of speed and defense.

Upper strength: 35%
Lower strength: 45%
Speed: 60%
Defense: 60%

TAIMAK WHITE

Fighting Style: Shorin-Ryu Karate
Fighting Attributes: Taimak possesses incredible striking power. While his speed is not as high as others but he possess an incredible level of defense.

Upper strength: 60%
Lower strength: 45%
Speed: 35%
Defense: 60%

4. I think I will give some reference to Double Dragon 3. For bigger impact, I don’t know who to place in the ritual death. Do I use Chin or Ranzou since they were major characters in DD3 or do I use Willy because he was an epic boss? With Willy I thought of a few scenarios.

Scenario 1: The elite Shadow Warriors have been slowly torturing him all of this time for failing to kill the Dragons. If you wanted to add a betrayal effect, you could say Willy was ordered to kill both Dragons after they battled; however, because Jimmy was basically raised by Willy he couldn’t do it. Instead he told him the truth about what happened. He then ordered Billy, Jimmy, and Marion to escape before the Elite Shadow arrives. This scenario blends perfectly with the NES game. It explains why Jimmy joined Billy in Double Dragon II after their battle and why he helped his brother get revenge.

Scenario 2: Willy was captured by an Elite Shadow and brought to their fortress along with his faction. Cain scolds his faction for their failures and demands retribution for their actions. He then throws Willy in between them. With no choice Willy’s faction is forced to kill Willy or die along with him. They decide to betray Willy as a sign of loyalty to the Shadow.

Scenario 3: Willy’s body is used as the dead body in the ritual death at the Double Dragon Dojo.

As far as Hiruko, I haven’t planned on it because Hiruko died. I could use some connection such as the real reason Marion was possessed was because of Demona’s chi. If I did use Hiruko, I would have to explain why his body reformed after turning to dust. Maybe it was a long changing transformation process within the stones. Like I said it might be hard to explain.

What ideas would you have for a good mid-boss or boss? What I liked about DD IOS was a diverse variety of boss characters. What would you change about the attribute system?
Die_In_Fire
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Die_In_Fire »

love this thread!!!

but it will take me some days to write my own vision, as I'm pretty busy sadly, but I've been reading all!!

Love your ideas BillyLee, but I think diofferent regarding some minor things:
- I consider the arcade DD1 as canon, so for me Jimmy was never a shadow boss or raised by Willy.
- Still consider that Willy was the boss of the Shado Warriors, and died on DD1. I'm considering Willy on DD2 as a "illusion" of the Mysterious warrior, that way, I'm fusionating the nes and arcade storylines in one. So for me Willy couldn't be a pawn from some other Shadow Warriors.

Basically I consider the Shadow Warriors and the Gen-satsu-ken as different gangs, and the former shadow warriors (linda, etc) beng recruited by the gen-satsu-ken as a revenge for the death of Willy.
after that battle, the Neo Shadow Warriors are the new threat, with Jim. Jim out of the scene it's Duke's turn, possessed by something evil.
what happens after that, I don't know... I find pretty good idea all the Shadow/Illussion stuff, and there's the need to bring back the classic antagonists, so it have to be the shadow warriors again, or have good reason to bring Abobo anc company again to the scene...

but that just my vision, I really liked yours, and really want to read more!!

things said that I love!! :
- Marion using Kali sticks and Judo: as a martial artist, the kali sticks makes sense. As a police, Judo makes sense (in japan is mandatory for the police to learn Judo, karate or Kendo).

ABout female enemy: We need some kickass girl, not the "pretties" from DD Iphone, but some really bad asses like the punk/funky Linda and Daby with her mullet.
check my WIPs (Double Dragon and Kunio-kun stuff):
http://www.youtube.com/DieInFire
てめえっ! なめんなよ!!!
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Billy Lee
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Billy Lee »

Die_In_Fire: Thanks for your insight. Also take your time creating your idea. I know that something like this takes a couple of days to gather pictures and say to everyone this is my vision for the game.

I can understand why you are using the original arcade as a base. It will forever be the most iconic game of the series. As far as creating the story, I liked Nintendo version more because I could revolve it around the scenes easier than I could the arcade; however, the arcade is somewhat of a blank canvas to create the story in a lot of areas. You can take the arcade in plenty of directions. As far as Willy, for now he will be a very important element because a lot of your story will evolve around what you do with him initially. I can understand your vision with the Shadow Warriors, Neo-Shadow, and Gen-satsu-ken. In a way, that’s how some of the factions are divided up in Naruto so if done right it is easy to explain how the situation happened.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with. From what I gather it will take a little time because there are a lot of elements, but I know you can pull it off.
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Play2win
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Re: Your ideal Double Dragon Sequel

Post by Play2win »

This is an incredible thread. I would have to agree that the arcade Double Dragon is cannon- but it would be almost impossible to create a game incorporating both the arcade and NES storylines as they are just so different.

Also, in the arcade manual, I think the gang was translated as the "Black Warriors"? I never understood if the Shadow Warriors were a separate gang or just another way to translate the Japanese.
May you live hapilly forever...
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