Double Dragon 2 Remake?

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Billy Lee
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by Billy Lee »

At this point the closest thing you get to a 3D beat em up is the Batman Arkham Series and Sleeping Dogs. True they are not pure beat em ups, but they have some of the elements of a beat em up game. Other games like Yakuza, Shenmue, and Jade Empire has a few elements as well. In order for Double Dragon to be pure 3D, the Sleeping Dogs format is probably the best idea for it. A semi-dark feel (Due to some of the streets of Hong Kong) that adds a nice fighting/beat em up system. Sure there is also shooting and driving elements in Sleeping Dogs, but if Double Dragon concentrates more on a great fighting system, then it should please old school gamers, but bring something new to gamers as well. The biggest problem is that while this work for a single player game, how can you develop it into a nice multi-player game?

More importantly, regardless of whether its 2D, 2.5D, or 3D, we need a good designer that can make a good series.
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by Die_In_Fire »

There's some playthrough of this game? I'm looking at youtube but nothing, just random gameplay and I would like to see the full game (as I don't have the chance to play it).

It looks like most old beat'em up, when translated to 3D has failed (Final Fight streetwise, Fghting Force..., don't know about the Splatterhouse one).

If we are going to HD, I would like soething like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKIVyEO0TQ0
instead of Neon.

as for a Double Dragon on 3D... maybe with The Warriors or Kenka Banchou game mechanics?
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Billy Lee
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

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One of the biggest problems with Fighting Force was that it was so slow, basic, and added little variety. When it comes to 3D game, it is very important to have smooth gameplay and a very robust fighting system which is why I mentioned the other games because I feel they were successful at it.

As far as 2D/2.5D, it just seems like Neon and Wander were missing those essential elements as well as the DD feel. If 2D/2.5D continues, I really hope we can get a system similar to Super Double Dragon or Double Dragon Advance and build off of it. Those should be the templates that they should use in the future.
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CTJ
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by CTJ »

I've nerver heard anything about this game. It seems really bad, maybe that's why...

Rockman wrote:Image


They give a special thanks to Y. Kishimoto ...

But why ? Because he's imagined greats games and a great licence which they can use to make a lot of money without giving him something back ? Ho ok ... yes it sounds legit ...
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by Play2win »

Die_In_Fire wrote:There's some playthrough of this game? I'm looking at youtube but nothing, just random gameplay and I would like to see the full game (as I don't have the chance to play it).

It looks like most old beat'em up, when translated to 3D has failed (Final Fight streetwise, Fghting Force..., don't know about the Splatterhouse one).

If we are going to HD, I would like soething like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKIVyEO0TQ0
instead of Neon.

as for a Double Dragon on 3D... maybe with The Warriors or Kenka Banchou game mechanics?


I'm not saying it isn't possible- but until I see a 3D beatemup which truly captures the fun and feel of the original, I'm just not sure it's possible. I'd love to be proven wrong with a Double Dragon 3D remake...
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by mechapop »

Why is it most the reviews for Double Dragon Advance, Contra 4, all of the 90's and 2000's 16-bit styled Castlevania sequels, etc are overhwhelmingly positive?

Yet look at reviews for Final Fight the fighting game(1999), Final Fight Streetwise, Double Dragon Neon, Double Dragon 2 remake, NARC remake, Alien Syndrome remake...basically
every 3d version of classic 80s games. They all suck.

When will companies learn that people want TWO D(or least 2.5d) when it comes to these sequels and remakes? Yeah, Ninja Gaiden worked and became its own thing. But thats an exception, not the rule. Its maddening that Wayforward made Contra 4, yet made DD Neon. They know how to make a create classic style. Strider 2 is an example of a breathtaking 2.5d sequel, as well as Contra Hardcorps Rising.

Would it seriously be difficult to finally get a Double Dragon 5 or other new DD game in 2d? Why do they always have to be remakes/remixes?
That said, I think Double Dragon Iphone may be the last real DD game we get.
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

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mechapop wrote:Why is it most the reviews for Double Dragon Advance, Contra 4, all of the 90's and 2000's 16-bit styled Castlevania sequels, etc are overhwhelmingly positive?

Yet look at reviews for Final Fight the fighting game(1999), Final Fight Streetwise, Double Dragon Neon, Double Dragon 2 remake, NARC remake, Alien Syndrome remake...basically
every 3d version of classic 80s games. They all suck.

When will companies learn that people want TWO D(or least 2.5d) when it comes to these sequels and remakes? Yeah, Ninja Gaiden worked and became its own thing. But thats an exception, not the rule. Its maddening that Wayforward made Contra 4, yet made DD Neon. They know how to make a create classic style. Strider 2 is an example of a breathtaking 2.5d sequel, as well as Contra Hardcorps Rising.

Would it seriously be difficult to finally get a Double Dragon 5 or other new DD game in 2d? Why do they always have to be remakes/remixes?
That said, I think Double Dragon Iphone may be the last real DD game we get.



Amen. Great post. All true.
May you live hapilly forever...
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Billy Lee
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by Billy Lee »

mechapop wrote:Why is it most the reviews for Double Dragon Advance, Contra 4, all of the 90's and 2000's 16-bit styled Castlevania sequels, etc are overhwhelmingly positive?

Yet look at reviews for Final Fight the fighting game(1999), Final Fight Streetwise, Double Dragon Neon, Double Dragon 2 remake, NARC remake, Alien Syndrome remake...basically
every 3d version of classic 80s games. They all suck.

When will companies learn that people want TWO D(or least 2.5d) when it comes to these sequels and remakes? Yeah, Ninja Gaiden worked and became its own thing. But thats an exception, not the rule. Its maddening that Wayforward made Contra 4, yet made DD Neon. They know how to make a create classic style. Strider 2 is an example of a breathtaking 2.5d sequel, as well as Contra Hardcorps Rising.

Would it seriously be difficult to finally get a Double Dragon 5 or other new DD game in 2d? Why do they always have to be remakes/remixes?
That said, I think Double Dragon Iphone may be the last real DD game we get.


While I agree with nearly everything on here, there are a few things I have to disagree with.

As far as the reviews of the 90s and 2000s game that part is true. I also agree with what you said about Wayforward. I don't know which staff worked on it from Wayforward, but whoever did it let us down big time. I also agree that we need to finally need to continue the story line.

Now as far as Double Dragon Neon and the DD2 remake, I would consider them 2.5D. While they were done in 3D, the gameplay is 2D (Unless the DD2 game is drastically different from the demo.). Games like Shenmue and Sleeping Dogs (The fighting system aspect of it.) was more of a pure 3D game.

There is a big difference on why those other games failed and Ninja Gaiden succeeded. The games you mentioned failed for the following reasons:

- Horrible Gameplay
- The game itself when too far out the box from the original game like Neon.
- And a lot depended on the teams vision.
-It didn't have to feel of their predecessors core, character, and story-wise.

When the new Ninja Gaiden series came to XBOX they made sure to keep these things in tact. They knew the 3D version wasn't going to play like the Arcade/NES versions of the past; however, they created a fighting and ranking system that gave to good feel and transition. More importantly, even though they changed the story from the Arcade/NES games, they kept the core idea in tact as well as the characters. You can say it was a remake but fresh and new at the same time. Also, they had a series in mind and not just making one remake. Sadly the director of the first two left and a new team made the third game which was horrible.

What those games failed to do was capture those. They can change the gameplay to fit a 3D world as long as it feels like hard hitting Double Dragon like fighting (Sleeping Dogs and Shenmue does that.). They can tweak a story as long as the it still feels like Double Dragon. What Neon and DD2 failed to capture was the overall core.

Still, regardless of whether its 2D or 3D. No game can survive a bad concept.

While I feel it could succeed if someone did it right in 3D, an amazing high def 2D or 2.5D is probably ideal.
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by mechapop »

Well, I meant more sprite-ish even though there's polygons(like Hardcorps Rising) But I see what you mean.
I think there is a difference between a side scrolling polygon brawler and a 3d one.

3D to me would be the Tekken side games, Fighting Force(which somehow I really liked) Dynamite Deka(Die Hard) and Dynamite Deka 2(Dynamite Cop)
Oh also Bouncer...which if it wasnt for the continuous interruptions woulda been a lot better game
linear side scrolling polygon games I guess would be Demolish Fist(2003), Gekido PS1, and these two DD games. Yet it's DDi for iphone/android I was more visually excited about
as I felt it was almost a spiritual successor to DDA for the Game Boy Advance. That's a really good summation of the Ninja Gaiden approach. In some ways though,
I kind of dug the 2002 Shinobi 3d remake. The Altered Beast and Alien Syndrome remakes, not so much.

Shinobi and Aliens recently got amazing 2d side scrolling games for the DS, hopefully it's not too late for a proper DD 2d game to come out. (I realize Bionic Commando Rearmed 1 and 2
are polygons but of course those would be more pure 2d)
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Billy Lee
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Re: Double Dragon 2 Remake?

Post by Billy Lee »

mechapop wrote:Well, I meant more sprite-ish even though there's polygons(like Hardcorps Rising) But I see what you mean.
I think there is a difference between a side scrolling polygon brawler and a 3d one.

3D to me would be the Tekken side games, Fighting Force(which somehow I really liked) Dynamite Deka(Die Hard) and Dynamite Deka 2(Dynamite Cop)
Oh also Bouncer...which if it wasnt for the continuous interruptions woulda been a lot better game
linear side scrolling polygon games I guess would be Demolish Fist(2003), Gekido PS1, and these two DD games. Yet it's DDi for iphone/android I was more visually excited about
as I felt it was almost a spiritual successor to DDA for the Game Boy Advance. That's a really good summation of the Ninja Gaiden approach. In some ways though,
I kind of dug the 2002 Shinobi 3d remake. The Altered Beast and Alien Syndrome remakes, not so much.

Shinobi and Aliens recently got amazing 2d side scrolling games for the DS, hopefully it's not too late for a proper DD 2d game to come out. (I realize Bionic Commando Rearmed 1 and 2
are polygons but of course those would be more pure 2d)


You made some good points. I think they way we classify our definition of 2.5D is a little different, but I completely understand your point for sure. For some odd reason I liked the original Fighting Force too. I did like the Die Hard Arcade was well and I completely agree with Bouncer.

As you mentioned, we haven't had a true Double Dragon since DDi. I think the best way to please fans of Double Dragon is to make it in a faster paced 2D style (Double Dragon Advanced or Double Dragon Ipod speed. Both seemed smoother and faster than Neon to me.), but with a very high quality 2D look like in KOF XIII. If drawn/created correctly, it would give you a very modern looking Double Dragon that would properly completely the 360/PS3, or next gen consoles while pleasing old gamers at the same time.

I could imagine it this working out well.

Let's take the last true Double Dragon which was Double Dragon I.

Image

Image

With Double Dragon I, the cut scene and actual fighting is somewhat close to being on the same level. This is great for Iphone and Android.

Now for a system such as 360/PS3 or Nex Gen if we were to go 2D or 2.5D, I would beef up the visuals to a level similar to KOF XIII.

Image

Image

Image

Basically, King of Fighters took a hand drawn-type art style and made it into a high definition fighting game that not only looks beautiful, but plays like its predecessors. In fact, it plays a lot better. If you also notice the cut scenes (Or Winning Scenes. Heck even the interaction scenes.) are on par with the actual game play visually. This could easily be done for a beat em up like Double Dragon. Because of the strength of current and next gen systems, you can take the look of the cut scenes from DDi for instance, and build a beautiful looking Double Dragon game off of it like KOF XIII. Since it's a beat em up it would take a lot more work to craft and develop stages, but in the end it would be worth it. This give hard core gamers the 2D Double Dragon game they crave, but it gives new gamers this fresh and beautiful visual game that should catch their attention.

Now obviously we still need our major elements to make it successful (Good artist, good concept for a series, its core, and a good game play system.), but I think this would be the best way to bring Double Dragon into the future. This would be a refreshing change of pace from the 3D renders of Double Dragon Neon and DD2 remake. Even if the stages were somewhat 3D, just having this mix would still be awesome.

And hopefully we can get some online co-op as well. As far as the fighting system, they should try to improve on either the Super Double Dragon, Double Dragon Advance of Double Dragon Iphone system.
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