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Double Dragon Dojo Forums • View topic - Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?

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 Post subject: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:12 pm 
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We all know that Technos Japan's first beat em up forray into arcades was called Renegade in the US, and "Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun" in Japan.

They would later create a chibi version of the Kunio-Kun series popularized in America as the "River City Rampage", "River City Sports" and "Super Dodgeball" series

BUT...in the early 90's they made two beat-em-up games fro the SNES. There's been an argument as to whether these could be considered sequels and part of the River City Rampage series...or...Renegade?


Shodai Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun
1992/Super Famicom

Given it's not aesthetically at all like "Downtown Nekketsu", and is given a title to denote a continuation of Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-Kun, I'd say this right here is your first official sequel to Renegade.

Here's where it starts to get a bit...complicated


Shin Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun - Kunio Tachi No Banka
1994/Super Famicom

A lot of the characters from the first arcade Japanese version of Renegade are present here, however the characters have a more River City Random-ish look, and there's the RPG/dialogue elements from RCR/Downtown Nekketsu.

To me the REAL sequels to River City Rampage ARE:

Nekketsu Kakutou Densetsu - Famicom (1992)


River City Random Ex


Downtown Special - Kunio Kun no Jidaigeki Dayo Zenin Shuugou!


Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-Kun: Bangai Rantouhen(AKA Double Dragon 2 Game Boy...confusing, I know!)


(not included here are all the street challenge Kunio games nor the Dodge ball series)
article on the Kunio Kun/Renegade/River City Random/Dodge Ball/Sports series
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/kunio/kunio.htm

AND, if things were not confusing enough...

We have the "American/Unofficial" sequels to Renegade from the late 1980's, made by
Target Renegade 1988


Target III 1989

(what the heckity heck is this game???)

Personally, I feel Target Renegade and ESPECIALLY "Target III" should be seen as how the Strider and Capcom community views "Strider Returns"...ie: it doesn't exist or count,
and Strider 2 is the real sequel to Strider 1. Though...many people and even critics praised Target Renegade, but is it officially a sequel?
Or is Shodai Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun the one true Renegade sequel?

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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:44 pm 
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This has all been brought up in the past one way or another but I like the way you tell it.

First of all, Shin Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun - Kunio Tachi No Banka is awesome and should be played by all. ESPECIALLY the fan translation (if you can find it...).

Target; Renegade and Renegade III both originated in the UK by Ocean under their Imagine label. Those guys did the home versions of Renegade for the Spectrum, Commodore 64 and Amstrad CPC, which were all the leading systems in the Europe in the mid 80s (amongst other ports) and did a pretty top notch job. The Spectrum version of Renegade in particular was stunning, especially given the limitations of that machine. One year later, rumor has it that because Ocean failed to grab the rights for a certain popular arcade hit that they went back to the ol' drawing borad and came up with their own sequel for Renegade, namely... Target; Renegade! Oh and that hit I failed to mention? Double Dragon!

Whether Ocean always planned to make their own sequel to Renegade is unknown but it must be said that Target; Renegade is a heck of a lot more like DD than Renegade 1. The original version, programmed on the popular 8-bit computer (in the UK that is), the ZX Spectrum, features 2 players progressing from the left to right through various levels in top class beat 'em up fun. It's probably the best game of its kind on the Spectrum, far superior than the Speccy version of DD and has a very British feel, which is always nice. Because of its popularity, it ended up on a bunch of systems including your pal, the NES.

Renegade III on the other hand was a unimaginative disaster. Nobody wanted to see a back in time theme added with a complete lack of any kind of interesting attack, weapons or enemies for that matter. I tried to make myself enjoy this way back when but let's be honest, it was the absolute pits. What they should have done was converted River City Ransom from the NES and... hey, presto, Renegade III! Oh well.


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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:01 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:07 am 
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Er, where to begin...

Cassette based games lasted so long because they were just cheaper than the alternatives. Plus it helped costs given that there were some many formats back then.

Target; Renegade is official in the sense of Ocean had the rights to make their own sequel. I'm guessing Taito of America (or whomever) just ported the thing back for themselves much like how Capcom let US Gold do Strider II / Returns as you previously mentioned.

That screenshot is obviously from the Spectrum version of DD, which to be fair, is a poor example on what could be done on the system. To cut a long story short, the Spectrum had a few issues regarding colour clash - a term to mean that when one colorful object comes into contact with another, color blocks appear all over the place or sprites look like they're bleeding. There were two schools of thought. You could make a colorful but blocky looking game, which tended to have lots of problems with color clash (unless it's R-Type, which is frankly, incredible down to some damn good programmers and six months) or you could simply go with one or two colors which tended to result in a much smoother game (at least, sometimes). After the mid 80s, when games started to have bigger sprites and more detail in the backgrounds, usually down to being arcade conversions, it became harder to get around the color clash problem. Programmers tended to get lazy and went with monochrome every time resulting in either black and white games (not so bad) or horrible color attributes (DD is a good example). But it was one solution to the problem.

The Spectrum was very popular for numerous reasons but I think that ultimately it came down to three things. 1) lots of software, including the ability to make your own games (the amount of input from bedroom coders resulted in the reason why the UK became third in the world in the industry), 2) the cost of games (I'll let you work it out for yourself but games were anything from £1.99 to around £10.99 for ports / licensed stuff) and 3) gameplay ruled back then.

What's funny is, I had the same reaction to you when I saw the first batch of NES games come to the UK. What's with the tiny sprites, man! Of course, the machine was very late but it didn't help that we were charged around £50 (!) for the cartridges and with 16 bit systems already established with cheaper games (about £19 - £25), Sega already had the Master System on the market with many, many different alternatives out there and everyone else owning a Spectrum or C64, it all looked a bit "meh".


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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:48 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:05 pm 
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The Amiga 32 was Commodore's last effort in taking on the Nintendos and Segas of the world, who had pretty much taken over by that point. It was a 32 bit system that used CDs and tipped to be a big deal but ultimately failed due to lack of interest and absolutely appalling software (edit - actually it was the generation after the SNES and MD and made to compete with the 3DO and all those other failed CD systems) . It was based on Amiga home computer technology. Perhaps you're think of the Amiga computer, which came out in 85 and was pretty much the most amazing thing on the market until the Sega Megadrive (Genesis) came out.

The 16 bit Amiga was capable of arcade quality graphics and by far the most technically advanced machine on the market for years. Cost meant that it wasn't initially popular and there were some rotten conversions in the early days, mostly posts from its closest rival, the Atari ST (they shared similar hardware). However, piracy killed the ST and with the Amiga being technically superior, eventually programmers started making games directly onto the Amiga and it became a big hit in the late 80s up until around 95, long after Commodore went under.

A lot of British games started their origin on the Amiga and were then ported to the Megadrive or SNES and were just never as good (off the top of my head, stuff like Desert Strike, Syndicate, Cannon Fodder... these were all way better on the Amiga).

I had an Amiga and absolutely loved it. I mention original games but some of the best arcade conversions I've ever seen were on this machine... Rainbow Islands, Pac-Mania, Midnight Resistance, Ghosts n' Goblins... all wonderful. Beat em up wise,stuff like Golden Axe and Shadow Warriors were well done and Final Fight wasn't bad. Street Fighter II was a bit iffy but much better if you got yourself a Sega pad, which worked on the machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:41 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:59 pm 
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Wait, you worked on ZXS game design? Very cool! I didn't even know there had been two spectrum versions, usually I just see retro coverage of the other one.
What other systems did you design for? Looking at screenshots for the DOS and Amstrad DD, there's this almost acid flash nausea look to them, while others like the MSX look like just a mess.
The Spectrum in some ways has a game boy look to it, and I can see why people would think the more monochrome look has more detailed(as I hate to say it, the super yellow other version reminds me
of Tiger electronic handheld graphics)

And wow, that Target Renegade almost looks 16-bit. (one of the baddies in that screenshot almost looks like the level 3 1986 Renegade arcade boss)

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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:06 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sequels To Renegade..or River City Ransom?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:34 pm 
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Yep all fan work. I reckon that if I had been about 5 years older, then I might have stood a chance doing some professional graphics for the Spectrum.

The Target Renegade graphics are simly coloured in versions of the Spectrum version. Double Dragon though is my own work. The trouble is, I have to rely on programmers as I can't actually code.


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